Whose fence is it?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 04/13/2016 at 11:43 • Filed to: None

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Somebody on my neighborhood email group is asking about who has to pay to replace the fence between their house and the neighbor’s house. In my experience, it was always a 50/50 split worked out between the neighbors. All three of my fences have been replaced in this fashion, and whoever had the smooth side kept the smooth side. However, another member of the group replied that whoever has the smooth side “owns” the fence, and it is their sole responsibility to pay for replacement. Good fences do indeed make good neighbors, and I believe that the 50/50 method is best, provided, of course, that your neighbor is willing to play along.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:45

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yeah, 50/50 unless you really need a new one and the other neighbors aren’t playing ball, in which case pay for it and paint a big frowny on their side, I don’t care. TL:DR - The fence belongs to the person (people) that pay for it.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:45

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I always thought whoever faces the post side owns the fence.

Steve in Manhattan > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:46

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Who put the fence up in the first place?

Fl1ngstam > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:48

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In the UK, the house ownership documents can state which fence is the responsibility of which homeowner. In a row of houses, each house will be responsible for one fence (apart from the guy at one end who has to maintain two). It’s up to the owners’ discretion/negotiation to do something different (and collaboration is always a good thing).

TheHondaBro > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:48

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My house in California had its own fences. It helped that one side of the house was a creek.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:48

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Growing up in California, it was always 50/50. But around here in Virginia the fence you build has to be on your side of the line or neighbors pitch a fit. Makes no sense to me.

crowmolly > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:48

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Depends if it’s actually sitting on the property line or not. If it is, if you have the posts it’s yours.

50/50 split is nice but not set in stone.

Tekamul > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:49

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Wouldn’t it be whoever owns the property under the fence?

Maybe it’s different where you are, but here you can’t build a fence (or anything) ON the boundary. It’s got to be 3 feet removed to comply with ‘set back’

Azrek > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:51

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Destroy the fence...and see if the neighbors are then willing to restore it.

Stapleface > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:51

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That person is an idiot. Common protocol for putting up a fence is to have the flat side face outside of the property, so it doesn’t look like shit to everyone. So, most chances are the property with the crossbars are the one who put the fence up to begin with.

Now, if it were up to me, I'd want to do the whole fence myself. I want the ability to have whatever fence I want and not have to worry about anyone else. And, a fence should never be on a property line, it should always be inside (say 6 inches or so). Both my neighbor and I have fences, and on our border we both have our own fences there. It's best for all parties involved.

vicali > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:53

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We just redid our fence last week, we planned it for this spring and I got quotes and picked the style, colour, etc..

I went to both neighbours 2 weeks before d-day with a copy of the quote (prices broken down for each side). On one side they were thrilled - had the cheque cut for their half before I had even gotten through my speil.. the other ones basically said ‘that’s nice’..

I wasn’t super suprised, or heartbroken.. the fence is up now and I’m sure we won’t hear anything from them again.

btw, if good fences make good neighbours we are set - 6ft chain link with privacy slats- ‘bombproof’ as the installer said..

As for ‘inside/outside’ the fence contractor said, ‘you want the good side?’ -yes, yes we do.

ttyymmnn > Tekamul 04/13/2016 at 11:56

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Pretty sure the fences here are on the line. There’s only one fence between the yards, and when my left-side neighbor replaced his fence, he had it re-surveyed because he had lost a few inches of backyard when the original fence went up. Of course, the fence was offset so it wouldn’t cut out phone line, and his new fence cut our phone line. But he paid to have it fixed. Ulitmately, he’s a great guy and a wonderful neighbor.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:57

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I always assumed it was whoever’s property it was on. But I don’t have a fence, and they’re not all that common here, mostly around pools.

Slant6 > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 11:57

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I like to think the smooth side is the outside of the fence. Think of a picket fence, the outside is the smooth side. You can also climb over the non smooth side.

ttyymmnn > Steve in Manhattan 04/13/2016 at 11:59

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Can’t answer for the person on the list. For me, the fences were up when we moved in. First the back fence blew down in a storm, but it blew into the neighbor’s yard. They approached me about splitting the repair bill. Left side fence was rebuilt by the neighbor himself. I shared the cost of the materials. Right fence was rebuilt by new neighbors, I split the cost with them.

ttyymmnn > Slant6 04/13/2016 at 12:00

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Here, we’re talking about backyard fences that don’t face the street. Personally, I couldn’t care less which side of the fence I get. One look at the state of my backyard would confirm that.

Urambo Tauro > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:03

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Fences can be touchy subjects. I think it’s a good idea for whomever is starting the discussion to buy their neighbor lunch/coffee/beer and make that the setting for the conversation.

As was mentioned, check with local laws to see if responsibility rests with one party or the other. If it’s not a maintenance issue, but was damaged by someone’s fallen tree or something, that could shift responsibility.

But above all, the situation must be kept positive, or at least civil. Stressing a neighbor-to-neighbor relationship is the last thing you want to do.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:04

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I moved into a new neighbourhood, and took the initiative to negotiate with my neighbours to get fences built between our houses. We agreed to pay a slightly higher percentage of the cost to get the smooth side

SteveLehto > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:06

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Whose property is the fence ON? Often, the fences are NOT “on the line” as you might expect. If it is possible to determine - and the fence is on one side or the other, it belongs to the person whose side it is on.

450X_FTW > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:06

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50/50 is the best method. Our previous house had fences on all 3 sides and during a massive storm two 8' sections and the middle post blew over. My neighbor and I split the costs and fixed it ourselves.

On the back fence which is with a different neighbor, he was asking about replacing all 3 sides of his with vinyl fencing one summer and we agreed I’d pay for half the cost of the section that splits our yards.

jariten1781 > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:10

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Eh? The side with the cross braces has been the owner everywhere I’ve lived. Smooth side faces away from the property owner so people can’t easily jump the privacy fence.

Anyway, I've paid 100% for fence replacements at my houses so I could select the builder, material, and style without dicking around trying to compromise with a neighbor. Smooth side always out :P

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:19

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I need a new fence... the neighbor has a pair of the dumbest german shepards ever... When ever me and/or my dog go out into the yard, the pair of them just do barking laps up and down the fence. There’s a 5" ditch along their side of the fence from those obsessive laps. (Never mind that the fence is only 4ft tall and they could jump over if they knew they could)

Poor dogs, when they were puppies I offered to train them, but the owners declined. I dont even think they have ever been off the property. Sigh* They could have been smart but the owners didn’t really want dogs, they just liked the idea of having a pair.

Rico > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:21

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Tough to say who pays but I’m of the mind that whoever paid for the fence is responsible for the repair.

I only say this because let’s say hypothetically the fence I paid for was made from the finest wood and now I was repairing it and again needed the finest wood and the job would cost $10,000 is it reasonable to ask you to split that with me 50/50?

Steve in Manhattan > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:22

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In my experience, the household that built the fence is responsible for repairs. But hey - if you guys come to an agreement, go for it.

smobgirl > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:33

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I’m cool with 50/50, but around here it’s whoever has the permit for the fence. A chunk of the fence around my yard fell over during a wind storm last year and it was apparently the neighbor’s responsibility (and he wouldn’t let me help pay...but he wouldn't pay for the roses it squashed, either). I think I only “own” the part that separates my yard from the alley.

ttyymmnn > Rico 04/13/2016 at 12:47

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Are you a lawyer?

ttyymmnn > jariten1781 04/13/2016 at 12:48

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These are backyard fences between the houses, so one person gets the pretty side, the other gets the bracing. For fences that face the street, the neighborhood covenants state that it must be smooth side out.

ttyymmnn > SteveLehto 04/13/2016 at 12:50

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Somebody would have to come out and do a new survey. These are fences between back yards, so presumably, they are built on the line. But I really don’t know. One of my side neighbors said that the fence encroached on his yard by 6 inches, so when he replaced the fence he reclaimed his land (after a survey). Turns out the fence was offset to protect my underground phone line, which he cut when he built his fence.

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 12:51

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That seems eminently fair to me.

ttyymmnn > Urambo Tauro 04/13/2016 at 12:51

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Agreed. Fortunately, I’m on good terms with all the neighbors.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:53

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seemed to be common enough practice, that the fencers, fence installers, builders, the people what put it up were happy to take partial payment from us, and get the rest directly from the other participants.

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 12:55

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My first experience with this was soon after we bought our house. During a storm, a section of the cedar fence blew down and into the back neighbor’s yard. A couple days later, I was sitting on the front porch enjoying a cigar when a pickup truck pulled up and a man got out to explain that he was the contractor fixing the fence and would I mind paying for half of it? He showed me the bill, I stroked a check for half the amount, and everybody was a winner. I got the “ugly” side of the fence, but I really don’t care. Besides, now I can climb up on the fence and look for my kid’s soccer ball when it goes into the neighbor’s yard.

finn's arm > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:59

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We’ve had bad storms in the area lately and my fence is rotted. I am just gonna repair it as cheaply as possible, and put in new posts where the old rotted ones fell out from.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 12:59

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In the UK at least, the owner of a close board or post and rail fence is the property that has the posts facing into the garden, unless otherwise proven on a boundary map. Fence panels set inbetween posts is always up for debate, but it’s assumed 50/50.

SteveLehto > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:03

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You’d be surprised. I’ve heard of neighbors who didn’t want a fence so the owner put it up a few inches on their side. To put it ON the line would take permission from both sides and if you weren’t there when the fence went up, you’d never know.

Keep in mind that in most states, after a few years, the fenceline becomes the new property line by adverse possession after a given number of years. Common law was 20 but some states have shortened it. If the fence has been in place for 20+ years, it IS the line. If less than that, yes - a survey would be needed to be sure (unless there was a monument etc). I had an idiot neighbor who routinely mowed a swath of my yard, claiming it was his. I mowed it too.

Then he planted trees on it. I mowed them down. What the hell. It was my property.

Pixel > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:12

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In my neighborhood it seems to largely be a matter of who cares enough about the fence to fix it being the one responsible. My neighbor on one side was apparently tired of the beat up old fence, so one day I discovered it had been ripped out and he & his brother were in the process of putting a nice new one up. Not only did they put it on the correct property line(regaining me a few inches of yard lost to the previous layout), but asked if I wanted the smooth side and installed it accordingly.

Now I’m getting tired of another side that is getting sorry looking. So I’m going to pay to have that replaced since it bugs me, and I’ll give that neighbor the smooth side if they want it.

ttyymmnn > SteveLehto 04/13/2016 at 13:12

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Fortunately, I get along very well with my neighbors. At least, the one I talk to. The other one moved in a year or so and we've never spoken. At least he's quiet. Can't say as much for the backyard neighbor who runs his home recording studio at 3:00 am. I've got the Sheriff on speed dial.

ttyymmnn > Pixel 04/13/2016 at 13:14

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If you are friendly with neighbor, why not ask if they’ll split the cost? If the won’t, screw ‘em and claim the pretty side.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:15

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funny you say that, we decided on the smooth side specifically so our kids wouldn’t climb out :D

Pixel > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:22

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Meh. I got the fence on one side free, so if I pay for the fence on the other side I’m paying about the same as if I’d split the cost on both. I know I have more disposable income than that neighbor, so I’m willing to eat the full cost to have the fence like I want it.

EmbraceTheRasp > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:22

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Where I’m from, the code said that if you built a fence on the property line, the smooth side must face the neighbor. However, there is no reason both sides can’t be smooth if you can shell out the requisite money for wood.

I heard stories of neighbors who put white pine facing the non-paying side and cedar facing the payer.

However, if you’re second generation to the original install, and friendly with the neighbors, a fitty-fitty split seems appropriate. Keep in mind, you can alternate smooth-rough-smooth-roough as you hit posts if you only want (want to pay for) one sided fences.

ttyymmnn > EmbraceTheRasp 04/13/2016 at 13:30

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Personally, I couldn't care less which side I get. But I know it's important to some people.

ttyymmnn > Pixel 04/13/2016 at 13:31

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You're a good man, Charlie Brown.

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 13:32

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My boys are learning how to approach a neighbor and ask to go in their yard to retrieve a ball. I used to let them play in the front, but I'm trying to get my front yard to grow, and playing soccer isn't very good for that.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:33

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I just happen to have some experience with this! It depends on the state and local laws may vary, but in most places ownership is determined by who paid to build the fence in the first place. In my case, I share the fence to the west and south, but I own the fence to the east since that neighbor didn’t pay for any portion of it. Ownership passes down with the house when it’s sold. The trick is proving ownership. That will be easy in my case since I have documentation from when I built the east and west fences. The back fence was there when I purchased the property and I have photos from the day of the sale.

There are also laws determining where it can be built. In some places it is always on the property line, in others, a fence must be built wholly within the owner’s property except when the ownership is shared with the adjacent neighbor. Sometimes this is an advantage, sometimes not. I have seen two walls adjacent to each other, one stucco, one brick, each wholly located on the respective owner’s property, with no gap in between. I have also seen a dilapidated wall with a wooden fence against it. The wooden fence owner put up the fence because the owner of the wall refused to make repairs and legally, the wooden fence owner couldn’t touch the wall.

When I built my fences, I used alternating pickets so neither of us got the “ugly” side and it would have a better chance of surviving high winds. A few years later that paid off. We only lost one section of fence when the tornado came through and that one was due to my lawn furniture and grill knocking that section down.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck 04/13/2016 at 13:44

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Tornado? Ain’t nobody got time for that!

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:46

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the flat side of the fence is great for kicking a soccer ball against (I’m sure my neighbours love that)

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 13:48

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When I was young, we had a cinder lot next door and I used to bounce a tennis ball off the neighbor’s house and catch it. The neighbor didn’t mind the noise. He used to play for the Red Sox way back in the day, and would watch me play. Nice old guy.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:49

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a cinder block wall would be a dream... next house. my next house is having a detached garage with cinder walls!

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 13:51

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This was old school brick on a 3 story townhouse. Made an awesome backstop.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 13:54

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Just get some wood and tack up another smooth side. I would build my own fence just on the other side and make it a foot taller.

Rico > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 14:22

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Lmao!

Me: “I decree that the fence be cut in half and an equal portion given to both parties:

ttyymmnn: “No! I’d rather the fence go to my neighbor than to see it destroyed!”

Me: “The fences true owner would never want the fence destroyed, ttyymmnn the fence shall be yours”

ttyymmnn > Rico 04/13/2016 at 14:24

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You’re not a lawyer. You must be Solomon .

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 16:30

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I asked my neighbor about splitting a new fence with me and he proposed a solution nailing tuba foes on his side and bought the nails and I nailed the loose pickets. He didn’t have the dough...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Pixel 04/13/2016 at 16:31

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In my reality, I’d call that “being cool.” Kudos, Neighbor.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MonkeePuzzle 04/13/2016 at 16:32

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Fences become invisible to me, so I wouldn’t care.

CaptDale - is secretly British > ttyymmnn 04/13/2016 at 17:35

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Huh, I would agree with the 50/50, but I’d also want a 50/50 fence or double sided smooth.